Author’s Note: I wrote this almost a whopping five years ago, and it’s one of two posts that drives most of the most new traffic to our site. If that’s you…welcome! Make yourself at home! I’m re-publishing it under today’s date so it appears for more folks to read and comment.
Blessings – Jeff V., April 2, 2021
What are the differences between Presbyterianism and Catholicism? A very big question! Several of you asked it – which means it’s really on people’s minds! I’ll try to give it a brief treatment, and we can talk more in class. First, you should know that there are many members of our congregation who are former Roman Catholics – well, we like to say that they are still catholics, but just with a small “c”. What do I mean by that? When we say the Apostle’s Creed, one of the affirmations toward the end reads, “I believe in the one holy catholic and apostolic church.” It’s critical to understand what’s meant here. When we come to that line, Presbyterians do not understand that that word “catholic” implies membership in the Roman Catholic Church – a more specific entity, whose leader Pope Francis, is based in Rome, and whose worship practice, called a “mass”, is focused on the Eucharist (or Sacrament of Communion).
In the beginning there was only one church – whose original Bishop was Peter (he who denied Jesus 3 times on Good Friday), and was based in Rome. There’s a lot of complicated history after the early period, but basically “apostolic” means that the first apostle who became Bishop of Rome, again Peter, “passed the torch” of leadership to another bishop, who passed it to another, and so went the leadership…an unbroken succession of Bishops (Popes) going all the way back to Peter. Up until the 11th Century, there was only one “holy catholic and apostolic church” – the one based in Rome. However, there was a schism (“The Great Schism”) in the 11th Century, when the Eastern Church, based in Byzantium, broke from the Western (Roman) Church. (Here’s a helpful chart of all the schisms).
For our purposes, though, the split that involved Presbyterians (eventually) happened in the mid-16th Century, and began (more or less) with an Augustinian monk named Martin Luther. He led a protest movement against many of the abusive and non-biblical practices of the Roman Catholic Church. The beginning of the Protestant Reformation began when Martin Luther nailed his famous 95 Theses to the door of the Wittenberg Church. Luther’s goal was not to start a new church, but reform the original one. But it became evident that this would become impossible. Thinkers like Luther, and a later thinker named John Calvin (who is the original founder of Presbyterianism) read the Bible, and came to understand the church in a different way. The church is not to be identified with a human institution (the Roman Catholic Church), and a human practice, like the succession of Popes whose office is decided by that institution. Human institutions become tainted with human sin, and power (which the church had in abundance in the 16th Century) can easily corrupt human institutions, as clearly did happen in the 16th Century. No institution – not even the church – is ever pure, and because of it’s tendency toward corruption, we can never identify the “true” church with such an institution.
So how do we identify the church? We understand that the one holy catholic and apostolic church is actually a mystical body, not defined by any denomination or human institution. It is an institution whose true membership is known only by God, consisting of believers earnestly seeking to follow Jesus; it’s apostolicity (whew, big word!) owes to the fact that Peter is the one who passed the teaching not the office to subsequent generations of Christians. Not that the institution is unimportant (the church is absolutely critical!) But the church can’t be the thing that enables us to call ourselves “Christian,” or confers on us the status of “saved”. So how to identify the church? John Calvin gave us a very simple way of identifying the church: the church exists wherever the Word (the Bible) is rightly preached, and where the sacraments (more on them later) are rightly administered. No human authority can confer the status of “church,” even though as Christians we’re required to form a church and to live in a community where common rules and discipline are part of our community life.
There are many other ways that Presbyterians and Roman Catholics (or just Catholics, with a capital C) are different – too many to describe here. But here are a few: we have a different form of church organization (much more about that in the video you were assigned); we have a different understanding of the Sacraments, obviously a different requirement for leadership (celibacy for Roman Catholic priests, was not practiced in the early church, was a point of disagreement with the early Protestants, who saw celibate priesthood as non-biblical), and the list goes on. When John Calvin set out to reform the church, he basically threw out every practice of the Roman Catholic Church that he found to be NOT justified in scripture – so that our worship and form of church government is quite extensively different.
Thoughts? Do comment below.
If a Catholic converts to presbyterian do they get baptised again
Hi Nick – as i understand it, originally baptism was done as an adult, as was Jesus’ baptism and the baptisms of followers of John, his cousin. Jesus was dedicated to the Lord as a Jewish infant, in accord with the ancient Jewish law. Jews have long had a “confirmation” of one’s dedication, a ‘Bar Mitzvah’ rite for males done on the threshold of adulthood. At Bar Mitzvah, like Confirmation, now possessed of a reasoning mind, we willingly confirm our dedication to the Lord, and accept the desire to be freed from our sinful human nature, as well as have our prior sins canceled.
For the Presbyterian, water baptism need only be done one time, it doesn’t matter whether as an infant or an adult. At least as important is the Confirmation of one’s baptism done either after “confirmation classes” on the threshold of adulthood. Or when on joining the Presbyterian Church, we meaningfully recite and accept a “Confession” or “Creed” acknowledging to others, and more importantly to ourselves, a new or renewed faith in the One God and God’s purpose and direction for humankind. I believe this stands in place of a re-baptism, which Jesus said was unnecessary. But I myself, as a Jew becoming a Christian, happily accepted adult water baptism over 50 years ago.
But, being still in our human bodies, still susceptible to sin, each week (or day) we all ritually acknowledge our sins and pray for forgiveness for whatever sins we commit or commit by omission. We are empowered to do this and teach this since immediately after Jesus’ ascension, the risen Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on his followers empowering each of them to forgive or retain sin. In this regard, I suspect that for the Catholic believer, her confession is completed when and if she believes the efficacy of the penitential rite and accepts her forgiveness. I think that would harmonize both the Presbyterian and Catholic concepts of baptism and forgiveness of one’s sins and one’s sinful nature.
Larry
Interesting..I do hope someday we all come together as one under God.
Sincerely,
Delores a catholic
The one world order is TRYING to unite everyone. Not a good thing. “Religious” people following catholic, mormon, jw , etc. anyone, will probably fall for the deception. The pope is trying to unite everyone. Sorry, but he is evil.There are not supposed to be denominations as He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Not a man made religion.
Watch 119 Ministries for some teachings with a bible in hand ( not a catholic one).
We are all followers of Christ…i like yellow you like blue. A Christian baptism is a Christian baptism. In the name of the father the son and the Holy Spirit.
Only religion I know that does not use the Trinity is the mormon faith.
The union to the only Catholic Church must come from the protestants like Presbyterian.
They are NOT Catholics, they’re Protestants.
The ONLY church by institution by Jesus it’s THE ONLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC AND ROMAN CHURCH.
Christ only instituted one “Church”, and specifically gave Peter the “keys” to His Kingdom. That means he would be in charge until Christ returns. Granted Catholic Church can fail, because it is made up of sinners, however God has kept true to His word by not allowing it to be completely destroyed in over 2000 years.
Who created the “Presbyterian Church”, Calvin a man, I would rather follow the Church Christ Himself institutionalized, the Catholic Church.
God Bless
Jesus did not tell anyone to pray to his mother or to saints!! Peter was married priests are not. I can go on, our Savior did not teach what the Catholic church teaches. Be like the bereans read and ask the Holy spirit to help and guide you to understand God’s word amen!!!
I think the only reason they made it so Priest do not marry is so they can focus all their time and energy on teaching and preaching.
If married you have to focus most of your time to your wife and kids.
As well the All churches ask people to pray for a sick person get better. I think the idea of praying to people who did some good while on the earth ( saints) is that they are in heaven next to God. Just like asking a friend to pray for you.
Do not forget there are saints in the bible as well such as St. Micheal. And do not forget the devil is a fallen saint.
Without Mary’s dedication Would Jesus have been born? So I think the fact that she was chosen by God is kinda important and since she is in heaven next to God may have more pull than a person on earth.
It is kinda like asking a friend to pray for you but a really important friend.
In the Bible anyone who is a baptized Christian is a saint. It doesn’t matter whether you were martyred or did some crazy thing while you were alive we are all saints.
To add :As well when I priest retires as a priest I am sure he can marry it wanted
As an atheist, I find it hard to understand and, in fact find it a total oxymoron for you to justify a church being inadvertently created by a ‘human’, on the basis of his personal opinion in contradiction to another church’s organisational set-up. The fault your founder finds in this set-up is that the leaders of the roman church are ‘human’ and so are susceptible to son and perhaps corruption in regards to doctrine? Right? So what goes for Luther? What makes him so special that the questions he asked of the original church were proven?
To me, you have taken a fairytale, rubbed out the bits you didn’t like (with huge political/social reasons at the time) and accepted this ‘as god’s word’ (with a a small ‘g’).
What gives you the right to create a church in one humans opinion, deciphered from another’s, written by another’s?? (The original scriptors of the bibles) and claim that yours is correct?
Please, don’t feel I am attacking you or you beliefs, I just enjoy the conversation.
#my god is happiness.
Dear Not for me .Where do you think your soul go’s when you die? An Atheist will go to Hell .Which depending on who you believe
it could be burning , Or it could be A Lonely place with Nothing (FOR ETERNITY). Or you can Believe in Christ . You Lack Faith or you would already be a Christian. . So think about this . Give yourself some Time. Listen to the words Jesus Spoke. Pray for faith. . Do not concern yourself with Different religions- Seek the Truth you will find it. All of us Sin, Even Jesus’s Disciples Sinned .Peter lied 3 times in a few minutes after Jesus was captured . You will find Faith, Even just a small amount will get you going . good Luck Sincerely Alan
Matters of Faith are very personal and sensitive. But wherever you are coming from, if you seek the Truth from God, He will surely show you.
I concur
Hi, the original post about the difference between the two branches of Christianity is quite interesting, though a bit too generic.
I am replying to your post just because we are roughly on the same wave length.
Dear fervent Protestant Christians, though Martin Luther and John Calvin surely did a good thing to try and reform the Church, as it was by then a sort of “holy” monarchy with its own army and possession, and even some pope leading the army in battle as a general… I do have a couple of objections to the rejection of worshipping the saints and the Virgin.
For your knowledge, I have been raised in a Roman catholic environment, which, however, I left as soon as I started making proper use of my brain, not discarding the idea that maybe God exists but rejecting most if not all of what the various “religions” would have us believe.
For the point in question, here, I’d say that, in principle, I do not have anything against the worship of the Virgin or of the Saints; allow me to explain: put it this way, you are a Christian peasant in the middle ages or even earlier in the late antique period, and something bad happened to you or your son/daughter and your only/final resource is to pray to God for help.
You pray and a lovely woman irradiating light appears in front of you, either in a vision/dream or when you are awake, and tells you how to solve your issue. Either you think it is a fairy, (UFO are going to be “discovered” some centuries later) or that she is Mary the mother of God that is interceding on your behalf. As she solved your problem, what do you do? you worship her (at a lower level than you worship God) to thank her for what she has done to you and your family.
Similarly with saints, though it is true that in the old times becoming a saint was like winning the nobel prize nowadays, therefore pure politics, it cannot be denied that here and there appeared at times people with particular “powers” or skills – healing mostly -. When they embraced Christianity or even monastic life and put their skills to the service of religion, they operated miracles, and again, as a sort of “thank you” they were/are worshipped by their “patients”.
What else would you have them get in exchange of their “miracles”???
As per the “funny” debate on obeying the word of God, the core of Jesus message is “Love thy neighbor as you love yourself”. You don’t need to go to mass, chant in a circle, splash water or eat some thin tasteless bread to do that. It is a very simple principle, which can be translated into “behave with others in the same way you would like them to behave with you”.
End of story. Do that and you will (maybe) find God (if s-he exists and is who you fellas think s-he is).
There is no Heaven nor Hell, neither flames nor ices, and surely not a guy with red skin, hornets, a pointy tail and a pitchfork hunting you! that’s just tales to scare people into believing and obeying whatever the priest says so that he has power over yourselves!
By which I don’t mean that there could not be evil “forces” or “spirits” or “other beings” in the world around us (as well as good ones), but that they have no relationship whatsoever with the Devil as it is portrayed by Christianity. Christianity moulded itself around existing pantheons of gods and goddesses, myths, legends, beliefs and so on recasting the good ones into angels and the bad ones into devils so that everything could make sense to the mind of the believers.
And with this I go back to studying Muslim minorities in Europe… Live your life at full, enjoy it every breath of it, because that’s all we (can be sure we) have.
Not love ? Where would you learn about how to love people? What I understand the Ashiest religion is about personal happiness and not about people love. I understand it is the “ me” religion that I see everywhere in society.
P.s this is not a personal attack just A social observation
I agree with you. A lot of the teachings are made to scare people into believing. I feel like this holds true especially for young women. I was never raised in a church and I am told because I wasn’t raised in a church, I am going to hell. God to me is an adult version of Santa Clause.
I do not care if one believes in God or doesn’t, or what religion they practice. My issue is when people start to push their beliefs onto others and tell them they are going to hell if they do not believe. That is where I draw the line. And oftentimes Christians claim to be nonjudgemental and yet they are the most judgemental of anyone.
Instead of creating a divide based on religion why can’t we just accept each other and be good people? Let us not judge people and not push our beliefs onto each other. You want to read the bible, go for it. You want to go to church, be my guess. Do you want to watch football instead? Alrighty. Do you, it’s nobody else’s business on how one lives their life. I really wish more people would understand this!
Every religion believes it is the right one and believes no other religion is right so who cares! Each system is flawed.
Anyway, this is a nice piece on explaining the Presbyterian start. I am doing family research and found that many of my ancestors were Presbyterian (even going back in the late 1700s in Ireland) thus my interest!
I think it is important for us to learn about all religions to understand each other better!
For me, the issue is that so much of today’s Roman Catholicism is not Bible originated. I also feel Jesus Christ would openly welcome all to the Communion table, rather than exclude anyone, as the R.C. church does. The disgraceful large scale sin and coverup of priests’ sexual predation on innocent children is another major reason why I no longer attend mass. The church needs to grow and change with the world. That female priests aren’t considered is another drawback for me. My new church has a female minister and I can say I have never met a more gifted speaker or holy person‐ in words and deeds. My children attend church school where they learn the Bible, unlike when I went to CCD we memorized prayers and saints histories– most not in the Bible. Oh, and they taught us that non Catholics were all going to Hell! I will take that risk and couldn’t be happier with my new flock of kind, Bible-based Christians, without all the hierarchy & judgemental mumbo jumbo.
Our Lord Jesus loves you and your family very much. I am Roman Catholic and I do not judge you sister just as I know that you do not judge others. I am very happy that you found peace in your heart and you share that love of Jesus with your family. I hope that in time that you may receive my message with glad tidings . I pray that you understand I do enjoy reading the Bible daily and I focus my eyes on the cross by participating in the service others always.
Focusing your eyes on the Cross, is True Salvation
Dear Mary,
I Am So Happy your Faith in God did not Waiver. And you found a Better place to Worship. I Was Raised through Protestant
Churches Like Methodist,Baptist,Church of Christ, And a Few non-denominational Churches Until I Started dating My Wife .
At the Age Of 32. I Have been going to a Catholic Church for 23 years now. .I Was Upset about the scandals As you were. The cover Ups.Mary those type of crimes are worse are almost as bad as murder . And yes The Church was Complicit in covering them up . Hiding the Priests. And not doing the right thing…. Even so we continued with our church . For me I Hit the Jackpot of Catholic churches for Raised Protestants. The Church i go to. ST Jerome is so Very Charismatic . . The ministers we have had. Especially father James .Some times he Pull the sound like the Holy Spirit is spitting words out of his mouth. I Think one Mass i was on the edge of my seat during the Homily. And it almost sounded like he didn’t take a breath. I Do not think i have truly ever felt that in Mass before. Anyways . thank you for you sharing your story. Love IN Christ, Alan M
What church do you and your children attend now . ?I’m also looking to leave the Catholic church.
Unfortunately people whom are pedophiles Seek places to meet and be with kids alone. In recent times they found the Catholic Church as well they found the boy scouts some times pedophiles are teachers or a police officer or any person in leadership over kids.
We do get rotten pedophiles everywhere and they seek to have intimate relationships with kids wherever that be.
How did they allow this people to become a priest , were their not signs?
Like a kid being sexually abused by their dad did the Mom not see the signs?
And I think priest should be monitored more. In the past they were isolated and not monitored either.
Our Canadian history is nothing to be proud of such like slavery and the government creating residential schools. Why did the governments allow that?
We should blame society And government as well for being ignorant.
Has all this turned to each one’s understand ,,the. Word seems to be manipulated to their taste..hence staring with sects then business follows… first Catholics and the all these denominations..
It’s easy to pick and choose what elements of Catholic religion you want to receive,but following ALL the teachings of the Catholic Church are extremely hard and as Catholics we have the hardest challenges in following our faith to the absolute fullest. Being something of a subset of Catholic is cheating yourself to Gods Full Graces.
For 3/4 of my life, I was a Southern Baptist, raised in a strong Christian home. As one person stated above, I heard about Catholic priests that claimed all other people of different denominations (non-Catholic) were bound for Hell.. I personally Baptist preachers claim that all Catholics were bound for Hell. I had one date with a girl from the Church of Christ. She told me that I was bound for Hell. Didn’t ask her out again.
In my 40’s, I finally read the entire Bible, 3 times, 3 years on a row, cover to cover, using 4 different translations to help me achieve clarity of the Scriptures.
After those 3 years, there was only one topic of which I still didn’t clearly understand. My Baptist background included mention of God’s Holy Spirit. Therefore, having visited my grandparent’s Pentecostal church, I witnessed Speaking in Tongues, lots of shouting and things that confused me. So, I began a new journey in order to learn about the Holy Trinity (Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I spent months looking up every Scripture I could find that mentioned or referred to “Spirit, Holy Spirit, Ghost, Holy Ghost, etc.” I employed the use of a Concordance so I didn’t miss even one.
I humbly challenge every person who reads this to do the same. Research!
I understood and confirmed that the Senior entity of the Trinity is God, the Father. I knew that Jesus Christ is His Son. However, because of lack of teaching in Baptist churches and Pentecostal extreme beliefs, I was confused surrounding exactly “Who was God’s Holy Spirit?”
While I found many Scriptures that really helped me to get to know the Holy Spirit, there is one that made all the difference to me and helped me develop a true close relationship through God’s Holy Spirit. Look it up in your Bible. Mark it and read it frequently…..
Romans 8: 26-27-28-29
Most Christians know and love Romans 8:28, but alone, it loses meaning. All 4 verses are/were intended to be read together.
As result of my studies, for about 20 years, I have been an Independent Christian. I claim no denomination. My Bible is my “Owner’s Manual”. By reading it, I learn what my owner (Jesus Christ) wants of me…
Blessings
Amen Charles couldn’t agree with you more the Holy spirit is God !!! And unlike Catholics who do not encourage bible reading the Holy spirit helps,guides,teaches and understand God’s true word.
Just a simple comment. I do believe you werr misinformed.
The Catholuc Church does encourage their people to rwad the Bible. I have read it on my oqn and also attended bible studies.
The Catholic church believes that Scripture and Tradition are necessary for us to receive the full word of God. It’s true that there are a lot of ‘lukewarm’ catholics, merely catholics in name only that do not attend mass or recieve the sacraments. But that does not mean the Catholic church does not encourage the reading of the Bible, because that is one of the two pillars on which our faith rests! However, we as Catholics do not focus solely on the Bible, since as John 21:25 describes, there are also “many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.” We rely on oral tradition as well, much of which was eventually codified as the Bible.
How is the Catholic Church the church that Jesus built, if that church was opened on the first Day of Pentacost after the crucifixion and the Catholic Church started hundreds of years later. The keys to the church was given to all the disciples, not just Peter (Matt. 16:13-20). The church was built on the confession of what Peter said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God”.(Matt. 16:16b). It was not built on Peter.
Source The Book of Truth given through Maria Divine Mercy is the scroll to The Book of Revelation mentioned in Daniel 10:21
Many Popes have been prisioners
Thursday May 07, 2012 at 06:19 pm
My dearly beloved daughter, to My churches through the world I say this.
Know that I will always be with you at your side as long as your proclaim My Most Holy Word.
To My Catholic Church, even though you caused torment as a result of evil sin know that I will never forsake you, although you have sinned. But know this.
Your faith in Me is not as strong as it should be. You do not love Me as you once did.
All the wealth you accumulated, put a distance between Me, your Christ and Saviour, and God’s ordinary children.
You scaled such lofty heights that I could not reach up to you and offer you My hand to salvage you from the rot within your core.
You were taught the truth by My Peter upon whose rock you were built. And what did you do?
You built thick stone walls around you.
This caused a lack of communication with those whom you needed to feed with My Body and Blood so that their souls could be nourished.
The respect required of you in administering My Most Holy Eucharist was lost when you demeaned My Presence.
When Vatican II declared new rules they were introduced by those evil Masonic forces from within your corridors.
They cunningly presented new ways to administer My Holy Eucharist which are insulting to Me.
Your so called tolerant teachings proclaimed a series of lies including the refusal to acknowledge the power of St Michael the Archangel.
He is the protector of the Church against Satan. Those forces among you knew this. This is why you stopped all prayers requesting his help before Me at the Holy Mass.
Then you perpetrated the biggest untruth that Hell was not to be feared. That it was just a metaphor. For this lie, accepted as the truth by many of God’s children, has meant the loss of billions of souls.
How you offend Me. For those humble and sacred servants among you I ask that you go back to My Teachings.
Never allow riches to accumulate amongst you and think that they are acceptable in My eyes.
Riches, gold and power accumulated in My Name will be your downfall. You cannot profit from My Holy Word.
You have suffered because of the way you have offended Me.
Never think that I am blaming the many Holy Popes who have sat in the seat of Peter. Their mission has always been protected.
Many Popes have been prisoners in the Holy See surrounded by Masonic groups who do not represent God.
They hate God and have spent fifty years spreading untruths about the Mercy of God.
Their works have led to the collapse of the Catholic Church.
This was not an accident. It was deliberately and cunningly plotted in order to destroy the faith of the Church. To destroy the homage of ordinary Catholics to the One True God.
For this you will now be cast aside into the wilderness. After Pope Benedict, you will be led by Me, from the Heavens.
Oh how you have made Me weep.
I call on all of My sacred servants who know the truth to stand up and follow Me, your Jesus, to spread the truth of My Teachings in humble servitude. You must find the courage and the strength to rise from the ashes.
Above all, reject the lies which will shortly be presented to you by the False Prophet.
He will merge the Catholic Church with other churches, including pagan churches, to become one abomination, a one- world church without a soul.
Your Jesus
The church of Christ, is the only church which members will be saved.we have only one church in the bible and nothing else
I’m sorry, but the church doesn’t save you! You are saved by the blood of Jesus who gave up his life for us all.
Only God knows whom will be saved
PLEASE, stop teaching that the line “one holy catholic and apostolic church” means that you must believe in the Catholic Church! In the case of the Apostle’s Creed (as well as the Nicene Creed), the word “catholic” means universal…..not the Catholic religion only. The Greek adjective katholikos, the origin of the term “catholic”, means “universal”.
There is a big question-mark over the word “church” itself. Strictly speaking the word normally translated as “church” should be correctly rendered as assembly. The various “churches” all have about them the idea of human structures and ‘priestly’ hierarchy.
That was a great and useful article. thanks for sharing with us.
I would be sincerely interested in knowing some of the similarities between Catholicism and Presbyterianism too! Where are our areas of agreement in terms of doctrine and practice.
Interesting. While I find following the Pope less important than living based on Christian principles, I found one important difference that I think can make or break a church. Catholics believe that every action taken by self are being judged towards salvation or condemnation. Thus you should act in a “christian way” all the time. Not that all catholics do that but should be the intention. On the other hand seems like most protestant churches believe that salvation comes only from faith, from believing in God. And self actions in daily life are less important. I’m wondering then what would be the driver for a protestant christian to make the world better and have kind actions towards fellow people? Which in my opinion is the whole purpose of a church or congregation.